Sapolsky: If you think that there is no free will, it makes no sense to blame people for their mistakes or congratulate them for their achievements. But it’s incredibly difficult to think like that. Writing this book was a lot of work, but I managed to do it and there is an ‘I’ in this whole process that somehow did it. But if I really stop and analyze it, I understand that I finished the book because of the type of person I am. And that is due to many events that are beyond my control. I have to stop and review all the events, over which I had no control, that made me the type of person I am right now. It takes a lot of work to do it, and to not fall into the belief that you earned what you are and other people didn’t earn it.

Q. So much so that almost no one does it. Why is the concept of meritocracy so fashionable?

Sapolsky: The people who have the most power are the ones who have the most reason to like meritocracies and keep them in place. It’s system justification. We may think that meritocracy makes no sense. But on the other hand, if you have a brain tumor, you’ll want to make sure you’re operated on by a great doctor, not some random person off the street. You need to make sure that competent people are doing the difficult jobs, without telling them that they’re better humans as a result of that, and without having them think that in any way they earned that. The problem with this idea is that it can kill motivation.

Q. And that can generate frustration. Not everyone can be a great doctor.

Sapolsky: I think the United States is a particularly strong example of that. Because we have this incredibly strong cultural mythology in the United States, that anybody, if they work hard, can succeed. Anybody can become rich, if they’re motivated enough, any child can grow up to be president. And, you know, in the United States, if you’re born in poverty, there’s about 90% chance that you will still be in poverty as an adult. And every step of the way will explain why that is so. Your neighborhood, your education... However, we have a country where the entire mythology is built on the idea that it is in your power to solve any problem, it only depends on you. Because, look, here’s one person in a million who did it. And we’re going to make it sound like everybody can be there. So at least in the United States, where we have this really poisonous version of meritocracy, it causes an enormous amount of pain.